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Kit crindle; Christmas joy for one and all
Topic Started: Nov 12 2014, 08:32 PM (5,006 Views)
Prenton
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35th-Scale
Dec 20 2014, 09:40 PM
And Thank You Philip for the Leopard. Did it feel strange buying a target? :)
You are most welcome, Sean

I have to admit, I hadn't been down those particular shelves before ----the ones with targets, that is. So I knew absolutely nothing about what I was going to find...... All I knew was that my Kit Crindle recipient was into military vehicles, from the modern era, in 1/35th scale. Glad you like it! [most of what was there consisted of AFV's from WW2, the great majority of which were Nazi/German....and of course some Shermans (which I recognised from seeing Pat's show!)]

Many thanks to John (fs2005) for my Kit Crindle gift...it will come in very handy later in the year in a Britmodeller GB that I intend to enter (What-If III GB from August to November)

And of course a big :clap: to Simon Hand (Dasike) whose idea it was to have a Kit Crindle.

Philip
Edited by Prenton, Dec 21 2014, 12:01 AM.
"To boldly go..."

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fs2005
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Never would have expected that Dornier Do335 to end up in Irish Air Corps colours Philip !
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Prenton
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fs2005
Dec 21 2014, 02:19 AM
Never would have expected that Dornier Do335 to end up in Irish Air Corps colours Philip !
John - that's the beauty of What-If's. Mind you, I have to provide a background story......

I am currently thinking of an alternative timeline that began in 1940, as an elite group of German troops landed in Wexford and swiftly took over the Irish Free State*. This conquest took less than 48 hours to reach Dublin and topple the Irish State, and the English counter-attack from Belfast was defeated a week later. This allowed a "second front" against England, and also an "unsinkable aircraft carrier" on the western side of England which, together with the German onslaughts from the bases in France and Norway, gradually overwhelmed the RAF, so that, by May 1941, Churchill was booted out of office as PM and Lord Halifax, the new PM, agreed to Hitler's terms. Part of the terms was that the Irish Free State would become a German Protectorate, with the Ulster Province remaining in English hands, but demilitarised.......and England would keep the rest of her Empire, but would be out of the war for good. The US declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbour, but Germany did not support her Japanese ally, and an uneasy peace prevailed between Germany and the US for some years.

By 1948, with the Soviets still fighting, but on the defensive along the Ural front (Moscow having been taken in Spring 1942, with Leningrad and Stalingrad in 1943), Goering had some aircraft to spare, and provided some Dornier Do 335's to the Irish Air Corps, as his more modern jet fighters and jet bombers had proven themselves in service, and the Dorniers were no longer needed by the Luftwaffe.

The Irish Taoiseach, Sean McBride, and his Minister for Defense, Sean Russell, took delivery of eight of the craft at a ceremony at Collinstown airbase in April 1949, attended by the German Ambassador, Adolf Mahr.

(Mc Bride's predecessor, deValera, had been apprehended by the German forces shortly after he and a number of his ministers went on the run and ran a short-lived guerilla campaign in Clare and Galway in March 1941. He was later shot by an SS firing squad in 1942, following a show trial.)

That is the background I am thinking about. Any views on this bit of counter-factual history???

Philip

* see http://www.irishcentral.com/news/nazi-plans-to-invade-ireland-revealed-97376329-237361631.html#
Edited by Prenton, Dec 22 2014, 01:18 AM.
"To boldly go..."

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fs2005
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Youd like to think it would take a sizeable force of 'elite German troops' to defeat our forefathers but then again considering Eben Emael fortress in Belgium was taken by 56 paratroopers with 650 soldiers on site and another 250 a few miles away they probably could have just sneaked them in disguised as a soccer team :-( Only our roads and signage could have prevented them from reaching Dublin!


Never knew this (from wikipedia )

"Offer to end the Partition of Ireland in 1940

At a series of meetings in 17–26 June 1940, during and after the Battle of France, British envoy Malcolm MacDonald brought a proposal to end the partition of Ireland and offered a solemn undertaking to accept "the principle of a United Ireland" if Ireland would abandon its neutrality and immediately join the war against Germany and Italy. However, the reality of unity would have to be agreed by the "representatives of the government of Éire and the government of Northern Ireland", each of which distrusted the other intensely. De Valera therefore rejected the amended proposals on 4 July, worried that there was "no guarantee that in the end we would have a united Ireland" and that it "would commit us definitely to an immediate abandonment of our neutrality".De Valera had campaigned against partition and the 1937 Constitution drafted by him had an irredentist clause describing the State as the "whole island of Ireland". After the war he again called repeatedly for the ending of partition. The offer and his rejection remained secret until a biography was published in 1970"

or this

" Ireland, Britain's last Redoubt?

In his book Wings over Ireland – History of the Irish Air Corps, Donal McCarron gives extensive details on the otherwise secret Rathduff aerodrome. He states that as early as the summer of 1940 both governments were worried about the "Doomsday scenario" of a successful invasion of Britain. The RAF would need at least one aerodrome to continue the fight in Ireland and both the Irish and British armies secretly scouted for a site in the south of Ireland. The other airfields of Rineanna near Limerick and Dublin airport and Baldonnel near Dublin would cover other parts of Ireland, so the RAF was keen on a site near the southeast coast.

The Irish Army disagreed, fearing a German invasion would overrun it quickly, so both finally agreed on a site in the south of County Tipperary, in the valley of the river Suir, east of the Galtee Mountains. This also suited the Irish army as they had built a secret command headquarters near a convent school seven miles away to be used in case of invasion. The name "Rathduff" was chosen as a cover because such a name is to be found all over Munster. Both sites were completely out of bounds for all normal military operations.

With Hitler turning towards the USSR in 1941 the chances of an invasion of Britain waned and the Irish Army decided to hold a major exercise to test the planning and training it had been undertaking for four years, in autumn 1942. As part of this, "Rathduff's" secret was partially released, with it serving as the airfield for Ireland's 2nd Division during the exercise. After the exercises "Rathduff" slipped into obscurity, its fields returning to use as the thoroughbred stud farm they had been before."

So Ireland could have been Britain's last bastion rather than a launching pad for german attacks .If Hitler hadnt meddled at Dunkirk it could have all been over shortly thereafter .Interesting (scarey )stuff.

All seems plausible enough but how many troops were based in the 6 counties and didnt they have some Hurricanes and some light bombers/maritime attack/patrol planes up there also?I guess having advanced through Western Europe like a hot knife through butter we were unlikely to be their Waterloo/Afghanistan/Russia ,they could have been welcomed with open arms by some .

(Still cant get image of german officer , arriving at third or fourth Rathduff to be told he must be looking for the one a few miles up the road , out of my head !!!)

(Also I think you mean SS and not SAS firing squad (in case youre copying and pasting elsewhere-or Im mixed up)

Edited by fs2005, Dec 22 2014, 12:47 AM.
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Prenton
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Yes indeed John - thanks for spotting the mistake. It was of course an SS firing squad that did the necessary....edit done.

On the welcoming with open arms, that's why I have mentioned Sean Russell, who was the IRA's link with the Nazis from 1939. Lots of those boys would do anything to stick a knife in England's back. (After all, this attitude has a longer lineage...see the phrase "gallant allies in Europe" that was used in a certain famous document from April 1916.... )

And of course Ireland's No. 1 Nazi Adolf Mahr would have been an ideal German representative.....

Philip
"To boldly go..."

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FiSe
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Heil Mickey!
Or as Germans said, IRA would be wiped out within 2 weeks of invasion :adolf:

...as a German Reich Protectorate Ireland, there will be no Irish Air Corps. If you look at the situation in other Protectorates, there will be some sort of 'National Army' used for ceremonial purposes, like presidential guard, military guard of honor and similar, there will be Irish Police, but it all would be under the command of Reich representative.
There will be normal LW and WH operating from Irish airfields and barracks, so no Irish roundels on combat aircraft, even what-if shouldn't change that. And even if there will be an Irish insignia present by some mysterious doing, there will be more in the shape close to Nazi symbolics, some shape of Celtic crosses or something along the lines.

Unless, of course, the Irish will kick out De Valera within and hour or two from the Nazi invasion and declare Aryan Irish State........
Edited by FiSe, Dec 22 2014, 10:43 AM.
Filip . . . .

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35th-Scale
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Sean
Very interesting what-if scenarios....all the more so because it could so easily have happened differently.

A very good book about a fictional invasion of Ireland in recent times is Dark Rose by Mike Lunnon Wood. I really enjoyed this one and would recommend any of his novels as a good war story.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dark-Rose-Mike-Lunnon-Wood/dp/0006475914/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1419242061&sr=1-1&keywords=dark+rose
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Prenton
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FiSe
Dec 22 2014, 10:42 AM
Or as Germans said, IRA would be wiped out within 2 weeks of invasion :adolf:

...as a German Reich Protectorate Ireland, there will be no Irish Air Corps. If you look at the situation in other Protectorates, there will be some sort of 'National Army' used for ceremonial purposes, like presidential guard, military guard of honor and similar, there will be Irish Police, but it all would be under the command of Reich representative.
There will be normal LW and WH operating from Irish airfields and barracks, so no Irish roundels on combat aircraft, even what-if shouldn't change that. And even if there will be an Irish insignia present by some mysterious doing, there will be more in the shape close to Nazi symbolics, some shape of Celtic crosses or something along the lines.

Unless, of course, the Irish will kick out De Valera within and hour or two from the Nazi invasion and declare Aryan Irish State........
Thanks Filip

Good point about the Nazi Protectorates...Might need to revise to a puppet state, like Petain's Vichy State. That would allow for IAC markings...
"To boldly go..."

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fs2005
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From Dark Rose plot description :

"A consortium of oil-rich Arab nations, secretly gaining control of the mortgage and property companies, the banks and major businesses, buy Ireland."

It could never happen ....................!

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fs2005
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FiSe
Dec 22 2014, 10:42 AM
And even if there will be an Irish insignia present by some mysterious doing, there will be more in the shape close to Nazi symbolics, some shape of Celtic crosses or something along the lines.
Like the little 'stalk' at bottom of Croatian (?) black and white cross . Maybe a black shamrock on white square ?! ( With red wig for all aircrew ...?!) Ok more realistically as Filip said some kind of 'Celtic Cross'

(Pre)WW2 Royal Yugoslavian cross / insignia looks fairly close( Celtic) to me if switch red and blue for green and orange . Many of the Eastern European air forces had fairly 'different' designs to Balkankreuz.
Edited by fs2005, Dec 22 2014, 12:53 PM.
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Dasike
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Well the Kit crindle was fun. Glad everyone that took part enjoyed themselves and thanks for all the thanks :D Can't wait to do it again next year. Till then should I re-title the thread as World war what ifs? :P
Edited by Dasike, Dec 22 2014, 01:26 PM.
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Prenton
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Dasike
Dec 22 2014, 01:25 PM
Well the Kit crindle was fun. Glad everyone that took part enjoyed themselves and thanks for all the thanks :D Can't wait to do it again next year. Till then should I re-title the thread as World war what ifs? :P
haha

No, Simon - that was just a side discussion. I won't be continuing it....next installment will be on Britmodeller in August (!)

Thanks for the PM answer this morning too - message delivered.

Philip
"To boldly go..."

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Jasonb
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I'd just like to add my thanks to Simon for thinking of and organising the Kit Crindle, it was clearly a great success! And I'd also like to thanks Des for my great kit. Unfortunately my building rate has slowed right down (I only completed 3 builds this year!) but hopefully I'll get it done in 2015.

J.
On the bench -
Tamiya 1:20 Ferrari F2001

Completed builds -
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Joseph M

Didn't make it on Saturday but never the less I received by Kit Crindle this morning from Mark McGuinness (via Philip and his good wife Stephanie).

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Thanks Mark, this was originally the Eduard kit and a bloody good one at that. The joy of the Kit Crindle is that while I probably would not have bought this kit myself I will definitely build it and am looking forward to it.
Again Mark Thanks a lot.
Cheers and a Happy Christmas to One and All.
Joe M
PS from the what if scenario above I see no mention of Michael Collins coming out of voluntary retirement........ and setting up 'Flying Squads' to attack the Germans.

PPS Thanks Simon, a bloody good idea.

On the bench in order of nearest to completion;
A Model 1/72 Spad A.2 Finished 24/4/18
A Z Models 1/72 Morane "WR". (Schneider race entry from 1914).
K P Models 1/72 Avia BH-3
Mark 1 Models 1/144 Gloster Gladiator Finished 1/7/8
SRAM Models 1/144 SIA 7-B (Resin)
Valom Models 1144 A pair of Sopwith Pups
MSD Models 1/72 Vickers Vimy 66 Commercial
Revell 1/72 Fokker D.VII conversion to a two seater
Curtiss Condor (added 24/4/18) 1/81
Ansaldo S.V.A 9 (added 24/4/18)

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des byrne
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des Byrne
Want to say thanks to Sean 35th scale for the spitfire he me got in the kit crindle it's a smashing kit and I look forward to building it and to Simon for organizing it I think it went really well and should defiantly become a annual thing :D
Edited by des byrne, Dec 25 2014, 09:49 PM.
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35th-Scale
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Sean
Des, you were lucky I bumped into some of our aircraft experts in the shop....anyway, glad you like it.
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Mfun
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Mine arrived today !!
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Many thanks !!
Keep calm and built your models !!
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Dasike
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Excitment got the better of me when mine arrived today. I didn't realise you were an author Daniel! I got both the 1/48th Harvard from Ocidental and a copy of Daniel (Mfuns) book! :> Thank you very much! Was not expecting this at all. Already pushed up to the top of the pile to be built.

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des byrne
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des Byrne
That looks a nice plane Simon I did a ocdental spitfire before for my daughter and it went together very well and the one on the cover of the book looks a good scheme
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Mfun
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Glad you like it, if you need decals please tell me.
Keep calm and built your models !!
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