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1913 Depredussin Racer
Topic Started: Oct 17 2017, 12:36 PM (2,569 Views)
Marklo
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Undercarriage, horizontal tailplane blanks and vertical tailplane blanks cut out. Some serious sanding required to get them ready for assembly as the tailplane on the Deperdussin, unlike contemporary planes which mostly have welded tubing tailplanes, it has an aerofoil section with a rib and spar construction.

I'm pretty pleased that my carving/molding aren't too bad as the pieces match the profile pretty well. Once I get these ready it'll start to look much more like an aeroplane (rather than an ice cream cone :) ) and then it's time to move on to the wings.
Edited by Marklo, Feb 1 2018, 02:07 PM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Dermot
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Making steady progress, nice one. :>

Dermot
Gallery of my Completed Builds

On the Bench
1/72 Monogram F-105G Wild Weasel Vietnam GB


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Marklo
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Wow, quick reply there Dermot. Yes it's going nicely and I'm enjoying the build (unlike the HE 51)
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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Got to do a bit over the weekend. I now have quite a large collection of bits, in fact everything except the wings. I managed to paint the control panel, cut the rest of the control surfaces and start top shape some of them, fabricate the steering wheel and the yoke. I also pretty much finished the filling and sanding on the fuselage (although it doesn't look it from this photo).

Next up. The fuselage needs one last bit of surgery. Looking at the various photos of the plane (or specifically the version I'm building, there appears to be at least three variants of the plane out there) there is a noticeable undercut in the belly of the plane behind the cowling and between the undercarriage legs, so I'm going to have to cut out this section and re shape it. It'll also make the rear of the engine visible so that's a sort of a hidden bonus (all that winding of wire won't have been in vain) I'll also have to reshape the interior slightly to fit into the new front fuselage profile.

More to follow....
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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Here's the reshaped fuselage and the shaped tail planes and rudder, just need to sand a bit of reverse camber into the fixed horizontal surfaces and they're done. I've drilled and attached some 1mm brass rod into the fixed part of the rudder to attach it to the fuselage. I need to do the same for the horizontal stabilizers and the control surfaces. I also need to add the control horns which have been cut from .5mm sheet to the three assemblies. They're the Y shaped bit at the very top of the photo. I'll slot each control surface and glue these into place.
Edited by Marklo, Feb 9 2018, 09:11 AM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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A bigger update than usual, managed to work on a few areas over the weekend.
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Needed to get some reverse camber on the horizontal tailplanes so wet and dry double sided taped to a wine bottle fitted the bill. The black is my sanding guide. Vertical stabilizers fitted. using 1mm brass rod to give the attachment a bit of structure. You can see the horizontal stab ready to fit in the background.

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A bit more work on the cowl, wasn't entirely happy with the cutout so I added a plastic card torus to make sure I had a round opening. Which of course need to be blended in with some filler. Horizontal and Vertical stabilizers fitted. Pleased with how well the pieces fit together. You can see the control horn for the rudder in the foreground.

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Control horn fitted to the vertical tailplane. A bit more shaping done on the cockpit opening, made it closer to symmetric and smoothed out the contour.

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And here we are with the ailerons and rudder dry fitted (I'm using 1mm brass rod as 'hinges between the pieces) The pencil mark is where the slot for the control horn has to go. Fixed surfaces still need a little more filling and some more shaping/alignment needed on the rest, but looking pretty good at this stage.

Next order of business is to add the control horns attach the rudder and ailerons, finish sanding/filling/shaping the tail. Then it's on to the undercarriage and the wings I think.
Edited by Marklo, Feb 12 2018, 09:49 AM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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Attaching the rudder and dry fitting the control surfaces and the undercarriage. I'll aim to get both of these fitted over the weekend. Might even get the axle and struts done.
Edited by Marklo, Feb 16 2018, 08:49 AM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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A small sidestep from the grand plan to do some detail work. :) Some (sometimes frustratingly) tiny parts in various states of finishing.

From Left to right (more or less)

The Steering yoke which I need to paint some wood effect on and steering wheel which needs the same on the hand grip, both of these look to be a yellowish wood (I'm thinking ash) the control panel (going to go for a warmer wood here, possibly walnut) , and then decal. The little ovals are grommets for the fuselage control wire holes (these look like brass on the original), I need 6 in total.

Doesn't look all that much but quite a bit of time gone into them. Pretty pleased with the look so far.
Edited by Marklo, Feb 21 2018, 09:12 AM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Narayan
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Graham
That's amazing work Marklo. Coming together very nicely.

Graham
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Marklo
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That's amazing work Marklo. Coming together very nicely.
Thanks Graham. I am enjoying the build. Hopefully I'll get a run at it over the weekend. Although I'm still not sure which bits to tackle, could be:-

Wood effects on the interior components
Fit the control horns and finish the horizontal tailplane
Drill and fit the grommets for the control wires
Fit the landing gear and axle
(re)make the engine, I should only have 14 cylinders for some reason I started making 18, doh.
Start on the wings

Hmmm....

Of course I also really do want to get the canopy sorted on the MIG....
Edited by Marklo, Feb 23 2018, 01:38 PM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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Finally fitting the horizontal stabilizers, complete with control horns, the grommets and the undercarriage legs. Also added a 1mm wide ring to the fuselage opening as the shells are thin enough that they weren't staying round.

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The sterring wheel gets a centre shaft and it and the yoke get a basecoat. Dry fitting the interior, no wood effects yet, but all the wooden parts are basecoated in the right shades.

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Axle and cross strut added, using 2mm brass for the axle, which will need painting (I was going to use 2mm silver steel but I couldn't cut it :) ) The plastic tube was to give me a mark for gluing, it will be covered over with bungee cord (once I figure out how exactly I'm going to make that). Other view shows all the weekend additions with a quick coat of deck tan to show what needs filling, sanding. (but before some minor surgery ...)

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Wheels added (but not glued) after detaching and reattaching the right undercarriage leg. As I was putting the axle on something just didn't look right, either the tail was off square (which it wasn't), the legs weren't the same length (both cut double sided stickied together, so not that), the fuselage was twisted (couldn't be as it's the same shell for both side, checked many times during assemby) or (thankfully the easiest fix) the two legs weren't attached at the same height. After quite a bit of measuring/fiddling I realized it was the latter with one leg being attached about 1mm lower than the other, thankfully a simple fix and the geometry now looks good. Will need a bit of filling and sanding before repainting.

So there we are, a lot of progress and I'm pretty pleased with how it's looking. (phew long post)
Edited by Marklo, Feb 26 2018, 09:41 AM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Joseph M

Great Work Marklo, :>
Lovely work especially when you consider its all Scratch built. :clap: :clap:
Cheers
Joe M
Stick & String Rule O.K.
On the bench in order of nearest to completion;
A Model 1/72 Spad A.2 Finished 24/4/18
A Z Models 1/72 Morane "WR". (Schneider race entry from 1914).
K P Models 1/72 Avia BH-3
Mark 1 Models 1/144 Gloster Gladiator
SRAM Models 1/144 SIA 7-B (Resin)
Valom Models 1144 A pair of Sopwith Pups
MSD Models 1/72 Vickers Vimy 66 Commercial
Glencoe Models 1/81 Curtiss Condor
Revell 1/72 Fokker D.VII conversion to a two seater
Curtiss Condor (added 24/4/18) 1/81
Ansaldo S.V.A 9 (added 24/4/18)

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Marklo
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Thanks guys, notwithstanding my scratchbuilt Gotha GV (a long log time go) this is probably the most ambitious project I've taken on , hopefully it's apparent that I'm trying to bring all of my modelling skills to bear ( :) )and it's nice to see it coming together and appreciated by the rest of the community.
Edited by Marklo, Feb 26 2018, 01:08 PM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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Did a bit while snowed in, but not as much as I thought I would. Spent a lot of time shovelling snow and then didn't feel all that well. However some progress. Did a bit on the MIG as well but I can't seem to find the images for that.
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Wing blanks cut out, 4 1mm and 4 .5mm the plan is to scribe the .5mm with ribs and have each wing made up of 2 inner 1mm pieces and two outer .5mm ones, with the 1mm sections sanded to give teh airofoil profle and with slots for some 2mm brass rod to provide a bit of structure.
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The scribed rib and spar detail. It's very minimal on the original, the Deperdussin isn't built like contemporary airframes, so this along with some fine rod on the outside will be enough to give hte right effect.

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Starting to glue the bits together. Glued together in pairs and then duct taped to a large aerosol can (de icer actually) while wet to give them the right profile. Lots of sanding to do then I'll assemble the pairs together and shape the leading edges and wing roots.
Edited by Marklo, Mar 7 2018, 11:03 AM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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With the failure of Plan A to make two wing shells consisting of a 0.5mm and a 1mm core then sand them then join them (basically ~I couldn't sand the concave form properly and also realized that my 1.mm card is a different plastic from my 0.5mm and wasn't sticking too well so I couldn't join the 2 forms without a massive gap at the trailing edge, ho hum) , over to plan B; build the lower form up with 0.5mm sections then shape then cover with a final scribed .5mm sheet.
Still a little more shaping to be done on the leading edges and the roots, pleased with this.

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These photos give a better idea of how the wings will look when attached (you can also see the lineup of sub assemblies in the background, interior, propeller, cowl, engine and spinner, all of which need some work, but are 80 to 90% there) . I also spent a bit of time cleaning up the cockpit opening (it's very nearly symmetrical and the right shape :) and did a bit of scraping, polishing, filling on the fuselage assembly. Definitely getting there, should be finished before the summer.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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Bits and Pieces and a brief technical interlude :)

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Continued shaping the wings, leading edges and ends. The wing roots have a few mm of cutting allowance and will need to be fitted to the fuselage (hopefully at the weekend) which is why they look a bit rounded. Started shaping the cabane struts.

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The observant among you may notice that these have three struts not two as in the original photos of the Paris Le Bourget museum machine (pic above), I will explain :) . Searching through the internet there are many Deperdussin Monocoques spanning the 1912/1913 period, as well as a number of replicas, both static and flying in various museums, they differ in body shape, rudder configuration as well as wing and undercarriage shape and size. All told there are at least 5 distinct airplane configurations. Over the course of the build I've been detailing from the Paris Le Bourget machine, but following a 1912 plan so I've ended up modelling this machine (pic below), mostly because I prefer the shape and detailing on it.

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Now one caveat, I don't have any colour information for it, I'm not entirely sure what markings (if any) it has and the interior I'm modelling is a combination of best guess, what little information I can glean from the intenet and some photos of a replica at the Owl Creek museum (whom I emailed for reference material; they were extremely nice and sent me some photos btw)

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It is a flying replica, so it has ailerons instead of wing warping and I suspect the control panel (which I am modeling) may be much more modern than the original.

So to summarize I'm actually building from the plan of the 1912 Gordon Bennett racer with the interior of the Owl Creek replica, the colourscheme of the Le Bourget machine, and probably the same markings except for the tail, which will be blank or may have a stylized B1 (F1) on it. Simples ehh

On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Prenton
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A master class in research and modelling. Great stuff

:clap: :clap:
"To boldly go..."

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Marklo
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A master class in research and modelling. Great stuff

Not sure about the masterclass bit :) (thank you for the compliment) but I do try.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Marklo
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Progress over the weekend, but not without a few setbacks.

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Lots of drilling done including the holes in the wings themselves, rigging holes on the underside, the control cable holes and the wing attachment points. Some 2mm brass rod inserted to mount the wings, an you can see the left wing being dry fitted.
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Here it is with both wings dry fitted as well as the cowling in place, looking pretty sharp, even if I say so myself.

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Basking in my modelling munificence, I then decided to fabricate the tail skid, drill a hole for it and fit it.

At this point I decided to compare the whole thing to a set of plans that I'd enlarged to 1/32 scale and also offered up the cabane struts to start figuring out how to fit them. It was immediately apparennt that a couple of things just weren't right. First off the horizontal tailplanes were not correct, the fixed portion were a bit too rounded and the moving surfaces were the wrong angle and the gap with the rudder was too narrow; Thankfully all fixable by a bit more sanding and cutting. But then I realised why the cabane struts didn't look right; I had put the cockpit cutout about 12mm too far forward !!!!

Nothing else for it, time for some surgery....

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My first thought was to skin over the opening and make a new cutout, so using 10 thou card I made a template for the offending fuselage area. I then attached a second layer of card and taped it to a paint jar to dry overnight. It was at this point that I remembered that I had my first partial fuselage mold in the spares box and that it would make for a much better repair as (provided I had shaped it correctly) it has the contour of the fuselage molded in, so I set about shaping this to suit. the last picture shows this piece dry fitted (you can also see the grommets for the upper control wires), still needs a bit more shaping but overall I'm pleased with that.

Strangely enough all this fiddling with the cockpit actually fixes way more issues that it caused. I had been hoping to complete the rigging and wiring before buttoning up the cockpit and attaching the cowl, but the wing attachment meant the cockpit interior had to be fitted first, now I can complete the build except for the upper decking and then attach it last. I also wasn't 100% happy with the shape of the cockpit cutout and with the fit of the interior to the upper deck, this now gives me an opportunity to get both right. So overall more of a blessing in disguise than a disaster.

Next steps - in no particular order (the list is getting shorter):-
Finish the wings ( the leading edge profile is still a little too rounded) and permanently attach them.
Scratch build something that looks like a 14 cylinder Gnome engine (not an 18 cylinder as previous :) )
Fit the bungee cord to the undercarriage.
Fit the spinner to the prop.
Fit the cowl, and Spinner.
Fit the Cabane struts
Paint it and add any markings (B1 on the wings i think)
Do the rigging.
Fit and detail the interior.
Fit, sand and paint the upper deck





Edited by Marklo, Mar 20 2018, 10:30 AM.
On the Bench:-
Sopwith Pup scratchbuild 1:48
ARC-170 1/8something scale
Mk IV Heavy Tank 1:72

Finished Builds:
A7V Scratchbuild /Saint Chamond Scratchbuild
Airfix ME 109 /HE51 Floatplane/Mig 21/Scratchbuilt 1913 Depredussin racer
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Dermot
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Great work, enjoying this one!

Dermot
Gallery of my Completed Builds

On the Bench
1/72 Monogram F-105G Wild Weasel Vietnam GB


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