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The IPMS Ireland Nationals 2013; D2: Now with Competition Results!
Topic Started: Apr 12 2013, 12:10 PM (20,081 Views)
Bernd B.
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I'll add some cents ...

In Germany, Revell sponsors "newcomers" by handing out free kits to clubs to use in promotional activities - the emphasis is on ACTIVITY, so no giveaways, but actually working with them on the spot. Usually kits come from the "easy" range, which makes loads of sense (no painting involved, no special tools needed, decent outcome unless you sit on it). With Airfix now getting into the "easy" market (they look like Lego to me), maybe time to contact them for 2014.

Sharp implements are a problem - the solution is to simply not give them to kids. Get an adult to cut the bits from the sprue. Again the "easy" option plays into your hand as they have few parts and you don't really need glue. *sniff*

As to the ridiculous Garda clearance - there is a way around it, namely by getting the parent(s) involved. Correct me if I am wrong, but Garda clearance is only needed when you actually are left alone with a child. So get the parents to sit in, to help. The "Junior Table" should not be a convenient creche, but a place for family activity ... sugarcoat all this in some spin and off you go.

Now some sore points ...

In my mind, many exhibitions and competitions tend to frustrate the newcomer with their emphasis on excellence and the people behind the models (literally as well as figuratively) speaking their own lingo. "I used pre-shading and then the hairspray method and finished it off with Mig pigments ..." does not mean anything to Joe Public. Eyes glass over. Why not have a folder with clear photos in A4 ready to show step-by-step to the actually interested punter? And to Joe Public ... why not say "This model has x coats of paint and some extra work - I wouldn't advise it if you are new to the hobby ... but look at this model, factory-fresh with far less work and just as nice!"

Opinion: A clean build OOB with a minimum amount of washing to bring out panel lines will get more people actually attempting and finishing (!) a similar model than the old "German Tank Damaged At Kursk Later Repaired But Burnt Out In Berlin And then Having Been Used As A Hard target By RAF Typhoons And Then Left To Rust For Three Decades" (aka "Spanish School").

And a heretic thought at the end - do we need to bring youngsters into the hobby? Actually I don't think so, most of us "old modellers" will have stashes big enough for a few reincarnations. Who needs the youngsters? The industry does ... so they should actively help, not stand at the sideline.
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Parkadge
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As to the ridiculous Garda clearance - there is a way around it, namely by getting the parent(s) involved. Correct me if I am wrong, but Garda clearance is only needed when you actually are left alone with a child. So get the parents to sit in, to help. The "Junior Table" should not be a convenient creche, but a place for family activity ... sugarcoat all this in some spin and off you go.


Given the history of the treatment of children in this state I don't think asking for Garda Clearance is "Ridiculous" but as usual the bureaucracy has taken over and is a PITA. I work as a freelance arts facilitator with children and I have to apply for Garda Clearance for each project whether it's a once off hour long session or a year long. In the good days pre recession I was filling out that form for several different jobs at the same time and each one had to be processed seperately.
You are wrong about it applying only when you are left alone with a child- it doesn't matter if it's one child in a room or several hundred in a huge hall. (BTW anyone who works with children would tell you you should never be in a room on your own with a child in a work situation)

They do "make and take" at shows in Britain and it may be worth researching how they deal with the law there which is similiar.

I do think there should be a space at the club tables where members are building I would certainly volunteer for that.

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In my mind, many exhibitions and competitions tend to frustrate the newcomer with their emphasis on excellence

That's what competitons are about ^o) I don't see the problem with that. The competitions though are not what the hobby is about and there are plenty of members who don't enter the competitions and are content to show their work on the club tables.
Edited by Parkadge, Aug 29 2013, 01:25 PM.
Pat McGrath

Work to become not to acquire


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Bernd B.
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Parkadge
Aug 29 2013, 01:14 PM
You are wrong about it applying only when you are left alone with a child- it doesn't matter if it's one child in a room or several hundred in a huge hall.
Just to clarify - by saying "left alone with a child" I meant "without a parent or guardian". Thought that was clear from the context, obviously not. BTW, have about twenty years experience working with teenagers and "vulnerable" pre-teens ... for me the whole Garda Clearance thing is more of a bureaucratic fig leaf and only really relevant to re-offenders. It is the "internal controls" that should be much more improved, but that is another discussion.

Will re-evaluate my opinion re. exhibitions after D2 (or not ... depending on the club tables). :wave:
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35th-Scale
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Sean
Working with kids and Garda clearance discussions could take a whole thread of it's own for discussion.... I've been through it and I've also done the HSE working with children training....it's frightening!

But, back on topic, having a table doing demos during the show would be a good idea. There could be different demos(weathering, figure painting etc) and between someone doing basic introductory OOB model building with the simple basic tools: cutter, file, glue and paint with ordinary brushes to show how easy it is to start. You can then point to the competition tables and show what one can strive for. Like Pat, I'd be happy to do some time at the table too.

I think the mags at IMSS was a good idea. Not sure how many were left on the Sunday and if they're still available. Maybe Marks or Banba would agree to include a discount voucher if we promise we're only giving them out to potential new modellers (which is new customers for them too) as best we can. Giving out kits, unless sponsored, is probably beyond the means of the club.
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Prenton
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Folks,

Another trader signed up and coming to D2. I am delighted to announce that Shamrock Miniatures are joining the team of traders at D2. You can see their excellent products here:

http://www.shamrockminiatures.com/en/webshop/home

and you can buy them at D2!


Philip
"To boldly go..."

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FiSe
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Heil Mickey!
Oh yes, King Brian is in the makin' already, hopefully he'll be up to his tricks on the competition table in October
Filip . . . .

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Prenton
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There was a query from Eoin ("Dyno") down in Cork, over on the "club pages", a day or so ago.

As this section of the forum is only open to members of IPMS Ireland, and since the D2 competition is open to all, I thought I'd include this here, on the correct thread for the Nationals. His query was that he had entered a 1/72nd vehicle in the competition last year, but as it was the only one in the class, it was not judged. He wondered if it was possible to enter it again at D2.

This was an issue that occurred to a number of classes last year, because of the limited number of entries. The Committee looked at this aspect last February, when the rules were being considered for D2, and - as per Steve Culliton's suggestions - it was agreed to reduce the number of classes, so that there would be more effective competition (for example, there are now two ship classes whereas before there were four), and also to allow for Eoin's situation.

The key rule in this instance is rule 2, which says as follows:-

"A model that has previously been judged at any IPMS Ireland National Competition may not be submitted again."

So, if you were unlucky enough to have also entered a model in a class and it was not judged, then you are free to enter it again. [Of course, if you entered a model at any of the three nationals, in Cork in 2010, in Dublin in 2011 or in Shannon in 2012, and it was judged but didn't get a prize, then you cannot enter it again....]

Philip
"To boldly go..."

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FiSe
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Heil Mickey!
...which begs another question, purely theoretical, nevertheless, it could happen in a real life:
If one model has been entered and judged previously as a single entry and now forms a part of a diorama, or if previously entered and judged model is somehow reworked since - for example re-painted, detailed-up and so on - would that qualify as a new model, or will it be looked at as the old already judged model?
Filip . . . .

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Prenton
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FiSe
Sep 13 2013, 01:31 PM
...which begs another question, purely theoretical, nevertheless, it could happen in a real life:
If one model has been entered and judged previously as a single entry and now forms a part of a diorama, or if previously entered and judged model is somehow reworked since - for example re-painted, detailed-up and so on - would that qualify as a new model, or will it be looked at as the old already judged model?
That's an interesting one, Filip.

I'd imagine that it would have to be considered on a case-by-case basis. If, for example, you had an aircraft that was judged in one of the aircraft classes in a previous year, and it was now part of an aircraft diorama with a couple of figures and maybe a ladder or petrol can or two, then probably it would be excluded, as the great majority of the marks for the diorama would go to the model, which had been judged before. To include it would be very unfair to those modellers in the aircraft diorama class who had never entered their dioramas before.

Let's hope it is theoretical!

Philip
"To boldly go..."

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Hi Guys,
Interesting points, my question is what do the judges in Ireland take into consideration when examining the entries. Finish, painting , colour schemes and presentation ?
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Parkadge
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Gnat
Sep 14 2013, 12:12 AM
Hi Guys,
Interesting points, my question is what do the judges in Ireland take into consideration when examining the entries. Finish, painting , colour schemes and presentation ?
It depends on the class. Philip might be able to clarify
Pat McGrath

Work to become not to acquire


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FiSe
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Heil Mickey!
Hi Gnat,
The points for judging are highlighted in the Classes and Rules pdf file. It states the following:

* For adult modellers, this standard should incorporate the following; the removal of all flash and the filling of all seams.
No glue should be visible.
All parts (e.g. wings, undercarriage, masts, gun barrels, etc.) should be in alignment, unless the subject is being represented in a deliberately ‘distressed’ condition, e.g. propellers bent after a wheels-up landing.
All wheels and tracks should sit firmly on the ground, unless the subject is presented in such a way that this would not naturally be the case, e.g. undergoing repair.
Paint should be applied smoothly and evenly. There should be no brush marks or fingerprints visible on the model.
Clear parts (e.g. canopies and windscreens) in particular should be free of glue. They should also be free from fogging and other blemishes, unless deliberately being represented as distressed in some way.
Any such distressing must be consistent with the overall appearance of the model.


Modeller will get extra brownies for difficulty of the build - rigging of bi-planes, if done right - and unusual colour schemes. The base on which the model is displayed will not count in overall judging of the model, unless it's a part of vignette or diorama or similar.

But there are some extra trophies, for example 'The Best Finish' which I am the final judge and ruler :adolf: and I am looking for perfect finish overall. So no perfect paint on messy build and vice versa. The difficulty of the build is not as important as that mentioned perfect finish. The model got to be as perfect as it could.

Hope this helps :)
Edited by FiSe, Sep 14 2013, 09:05 AM.
Filip . . . .

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Prenton
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Gnat

Just to clarify further - apart from the special Awards (only one of which is judged by an individual (Filip's sponsored award)), all of the classes are judged by two people, at least one of whom has judged in our own competition before and some of whom have also judged at Scale Model World in Telford (such as myself and Paddy McGannon), or at IMSS, or both. Naturally, judges are not permitted to adjudicate on entries in a class that they themselves have entered.

There are, effectively, two different types of classes, irrespective of type of model - the classes which are "out of the box" (called SK), and the others. The SK classes are all aircraft related, and are classes A04, A05, A09 and A10. These classes require you to bring along the instructions for the kit. The definition of the SK class is as follows:-

"A single, commercially produced injection-moulded plastic, resin or vinyl kit, built to the manufacturer's specifications, straight from the box. Seatbelts, rigging and aerials from any other sources may be added as appropriate to the subject. Any other form of detailing e.g. brake pipes, ignition leads is NOT allowed in this class. No opened cockpits or hatches are allowed unless it is an option in the kit. Changes in colour scheme and aftermarket decals are permitted (e.g. Bf109 from German to Spanish markings) or to “what-if” markings (e.g. Mustang in Irish Air Corps colours). Kit instructions must be displayed with the model. Models in these classes will be judged solely on construction and finishing."

As you can see, in these classes, the judges will be looking only at construction and finishing, with the only extra criterion being the difficulty of the kit (thus, if you have two kits equally good in terms of construction and finish, and one is a Hasegawa kit that simply falls together and the other is a short-run Eastern European job from 20 years ago, the latter would score a little higher.)

For all of the other classes, whether aircraft or other, there are five criteria for the judges to look at:- originality of subject, construction, colour scheme, markings/decals and overall realism. Each of these is marked out of ten, with the winner being the model with the highest overall marks, and so on.

One other point I should make. Based on experience last year in particular, the Committee has decided that the judges are not obliged to award a prize simply because a model has been entered in a class with a small number of entries. Thus for example, a poorly finished or constructed model may not get any prize at all if it is not up to an adequate standard, even if it is only one of three kits entered in a class (there are usually gold, silver and bronze medals in each class). The relevant rule is as follows:-

"In classes with more than three entries, a Gold Silver and Bronze may be awarded, but in addition, commendations may be awarded at the discretion of the judges. Conversely, entries are expected to be of a sufficiently high standard* to merit the award of a prize, so that even if there are only two entries in any given class, no prize will be awarded if neither entry is deemed sufficiently meritorious by the judges."

(Filip's quotation in his post above is the explanation of what a sufficiently high standard means, that arises from that asterisk)

The final point is that there is one Award category where there are no appointed judges - that is the Peoples' Award. That is judged by everyone that comes in to the event, and is described in the rules as follows:-

"H4 People’s Choice Award
Decided by the people who attend and is open to all models on the competition tables only. Decision is by majority vote."

Everyone, on entering, is given a voting card, and is asked to choose which model they think is the best, mark its competition number on the voting slip and hand it back as they leave. It is entirely up to them to choose what they think is the best, and there are no criteria. (Interestingly, in the three Nationals we have had so far, the public chose what turned out to be the Best of Show on two occasions)

I hope that this information is of help to you. I look forward to seeing your entries in the competition.

Philip
Edited by Prenton, Sep 14 2013, 11:29 AM.
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Cheers guys for such details, when I worked in UK I visited a number of exhibitions over the years and noted that at some of them the entrants had to authenticate the colour schemes and markings on their displayed models. This was in addition to having the model type and mark correspond with the unit and period of service . Does that apply here.
Cheers
Gnat
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Prenton
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No worries, Gnat - no rivet counters are allowed. We are testing modelling skills, not historical authenticity. Unlike Hermann, we do not care whether the shade of green on the Sherman is too green and not enough olive drab. (The reference will be familiar to those who have been to the Bewley's Café theatre gig...or who plan to go)
"To boldly go..."

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OK I've got it, Cheers Prenton
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ghengismccann
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Gentlemen,
I have a large collection of IPMS mags both UK and US going back many years.
I have never consulted them in ages.
So if I put them in a big box, bring them over and offer them to all-comers
at D2 is that likely to be a problem?
regards
:>
"....the old men shall cause themselves to be carried into the public squares,
To excite the courage of the warriors, to preach the downfall of Kings,
and announce the glories of the Republic"
Convention of the Republic,Paris, Dec; 1793
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Prenton
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ghengismccann
Sep 18 2013, 09:42 AM
Gentlemen,
I have a large collection of IPMS mags both UK and US going back many years.
I have never consulted them in ages.
So if I put them in a big box, bring them over and offer them to all-comers
at D2 is that likely to be a problem?
regards
:>
Paddy

Not a problem at all - very generous of you.

Many thanks,

Philip
"To boldly go..."

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Dasike
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Hey Philip. I'm getting a lot of repeat people coming into the shop looking for flyers for the show. I need as many as you can print as soon as you can. Anyone that's buying a kit, I try to tell them bout the show. Really looks like it's going to be a good show!
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Prenton
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OK Simon - I will run some off on Monday and will drop down to you folks on Tuesday....

Will I see you on the 28th?

Many thanks,

Philip
"To boldly go..."

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